Recording in London as a ‘Co-Producer’

October 27, 2024

Last week I was in London recording with an exceptional Irish songwriter called Luke Carrig and his band. I was asked to co-produce for the first time in my career. Not just drumming, producing as well. And giving out. We were recording in a big live-in Studio owned by Squeeze singer Glen Tilbrook. Read here for in depth insight into this special recording.

Intro/The Journey to England

Im getting used to airport drama after the recent Aer Lingus debacle where I was asked to leave the plane ( it hadn’t taken off thankfully). The walk of shame down the aisle and down onto the tarmac where there was a headmistress-like ‘supervisor’ with a notebook and scribbles.

“ Hello, is your name Mr Hingleberry?”

“ I believe you were rude to one of our desk clerks, calling her a ‘disgrace’ among other things?”

“Well I said that ‘it’ was a disgrace not ‘her’. Let’s get the pronouns right!”

“What was your complaint exactly Mr Hingleberry?

“Well you charged me for my bag at the gate even though many others, like my friends with bigger bags, were let through without charge. Also, there was no charge on the outward flight so why only on the return? And also the charge was for exceeding the tiny ‘regional flight’ bag dimensions limit, the size of a Pygmy’s scrotum. And it was surely an International flight anyway?” “One passenger was charged because his bag was 1cm too big”, I said. “Not something Mrs Pygmy would complain about I’d imagine .”

“Fair enough” , she said , “you are permitted to fly”

I spun on my heels and re-entered the vessel of the many sized bags.

That was in the summer. This time we landed in Gatwick on our way to this magical studio in London and had a bit of a Spinal Tap moment. We walked past the baggage pick up area and straight into ‘Arrivals’. Doh! “Who wants to bring their baggage into a studio session anyway, I quipped?” But nobody laughed. After an age of waiting and no help with it from our dear Ryanair friends, our faithful leader left the flock and went back with an Eastern European accomplice and tried heroically to go back In Through The Out Door, so to speak, the Cardinal Sin of Airport Security activity. He could have been shot!

The Artist

Luke trying out “The Saintly Powers of Bi-location” as my Dad used to say

Luke trying out “The Saintly Powers of Bi-location” as my Dad used to say

Sometimes in life you will find ‘double agents’…or people who are good at 2 things and live almost 2 separate lives! But this seems to be an example of someone who has both vocations enhancing the other, informing the other, inspiring the other. Luke is a talented songwriter but he is also a preacher. His songs have lots of subtle reference to spirituality but he is not a ‘Christian artist’, per se. I’d imagine his sermons sometimes take the themes of his songs and possibly vice versa. Good stuff!

I saw his journey here as a kind of prodigal return to a part of London where not only had he a bit of a baptism of fire in the music business, but also where his rogue father had set up for a spell, making counterfeit money for a certain rebel organisation. These return trips can sometimes have a transformative, butterfly like, shedding of old skin. He has a stunningly beautiful song about his brother who took his own life and his search for a light to help him through this sadness, arriving eventually via a beautiful reflection from his daughters toy.

Passionate performer, Luke !

Passionate performer, Luke !

I don’t ever remember a songwriter being so focussed and ambitious, but also open to change and to other people’s ideas, people whom he trusts. Why he trusted me to produce it with him I’ve no idea. He likes the album ‘Animal Years’ by Josh Ritter. Something like that ! I was proudly responsible for the guitar riff at the end of Josh’ Lillian Egypt’ on that record so maybe it was an example of an early torchlight into the possibility of involvement in recordings beyond just drumming.

Oh-oh… drummer doing air guitar demo!

Oh-oh… drummer doing air guitar demo!

I have no idea about music theory. I’m a sort of musical illiterate. But that might be a good thing at times. I am surrounded by these brilliant musicians, Josh, James and Fiachra, as well as Luke himself. So I don’t necessarily need the skill on those instruments, just ways of suggesting new exciting explorations and pathways. And cul-de sacs! Oops. Wrong turn.

The Studio

Chris, Joni, and Luke

Chris, Joni, and Luke

So straight onto the session. We got a guided tour of the studio by Chris, an amazingly resourceful and skilful ‘man of few words’, who was our engineer for the 5 days. Every surface in every room was covered in fascinating artefacts or odd curiosities. Or indeed vital musical accessories. I have a theory about people who cover surfaces and I remember my mum being ace at it. Not allowing the space for an army of anxieties to march upon. Indeed the importance of space became one of the themes of the recording session. More on that later.

Plenty of space to work things out.

Plenty of space to work things out.

There were cool posters, paraphernalia, gold discs, awards, mannequins, and merchandise everywhere. The gear was incredible , great mics, vintage Moog synths, a grand piano, an upright, tuned percussion, dozens of electric guitars and rare amps, beautiful acoustic guitars, a Hammond Organ and the accompanying spinning speaker Leslie amp. And a huge analog desk, pre-owned by The Rolling Stones.

Squeeze in the same studio circa 1980. ‘79-82…was there a better era in music ever?

Squeeze in the same studio circa 1980. ‘79-82…was there a better era in music ever?

The Session-5 aspects

1. Sound

I was worried at the beginning of the session …we went for a rough take and the drums did not sound good to me. What to do…I asked for the overheads to be changed as the small room created a harsh ‘glassy’ sound and we need to bring in mics that sympathised and helped the room to capture a balanced kit, a single instrument, a drum kit, not a whole separate set of drums and cymbals, which is what it sounded like initially, scarily. My favourite mic position is one at my right elbow which captures what my right ear hears ( the good ear) but is a little further towards the bass drum so we get the warm embrace of the beater against skin. So we did that too. Now the kit sounded fantastic. Thanks Chris for your patience.

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Drum take

What about improving/varying the sound of the other instruments? For example, James had many great bass lines. But can we use a muffled ‘Danger Mouse’-like tone for a track? Or go ‘up the dusty end’ a bit more for some unique harmonic expression or sonic tension?’

Fiachra and Luke. ‘Through a chink too wide there comes in no wonder”

Fiachra and Luke. ‘Through a chink too wide there comes in no wonder”

The work we did for around a dozen rehearsals was now finally paying off. For example, Josh, the guitar player, managed to very subtly but ingeniously sound variously like Jonny Greenwood, Lindsey Buckingham, Johnny Marr, and Nile Rodgers. But mostly like his good self. This was a big development. Fiachra, a clever chord configurer, flirted with as many of those keyboards and twinkling ivories as he could in a short time, and came up with some sparkling runs and cool new sounds.

2. Arrangements

James, Josh, and Luke arranging themselves on the shore of The Thames before a skinful of beers in The Cutty Sark.

James, Josh, and Luke arranging themselves on the shore of The Thames before a skinful of beers in The Cutty Sark.

The structure of a song has a map and there are many ways of routing, meandering off road, returning to set off again, or just staying put. Maybe we stay too long at one place, not long enough at another, cancel some planned destinations altogether. Like life!

We talked about the importance of creating more space along the way. “If you want to be heard, don’t play”, is my variation on a whole set of cliches celebrating the space between the notes. I suppose I played about 80% of the time on the tracks but I tried to stop or pause or not play when I could. Im learning all the time that the listener will keep re arriving to you if you have this stop-start approach. It works for a lot of things in life.

What a mess! Many many changes later, and I still wouldn’t re write my notes!

What a mess! Many many changes later, and I still wouldn’t re write my notes!

3. Humans vs metronomes

Eventually I decided in life, against my better judgement, to become friends with the metronome. Scary little nazi from the past. I now see it as my unwavering solid friend who guides me through choppy waters. At times it seems like my only friend. But don’t worry I snap out of that soon enough. The best drummers keep good time with the metronome and still create an emotion and a feel for the song. Not easy, as it’s sometimes seen as a ‘time bully’ pushing players outside where you might feel good. Like being in a lovely dream in some lush fantastical paradise while a woodpecker is whacking its beak off your brain non stop.

A good Monitor Mix is vital in your headphones for all of this communal timekeeping to work. Enough music in there to inspire good feel but also enough ‘click’ to know where you are in relation to strict time.

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The push and pull of time

The natural inclination for us to speed up at the end of some songs should be paid attention to. We even asked the engineer to turn off the click for one song outro. It worked so well! There were others whereby in retrospect we wish we did.

Because if a player(s) feels the time should move up (or down) in tempo very slightly , then that’s the right feeling. We had that issue a few times and you can hear me trying to stay on click and others following their correct intuition which was to move ahead excitedly. That makes the drums sound sluggish though.

Most players have a tendency to be ‘ahead of’ or ‘behind the beat’ in general live playing. It’s not a bad thing as long as you are not trying to play in strict unison with tonally similar instruments …then you will get unwanted ‘flamming’ and that was also a problem. Probably due to my personality ( laid back?) I have a habit of leaning back on the time. A lot of good players like Steve Gadd and John Bonham do it to create a deeper groove but I tend to push too far back at times and I know it can twist the jocks of some entertainers I’ve worked with. Luke seems to have a tendency to be ‘ahead’ of the beat, Fiachra also, and James ‘on’ the beat, Josh ‘on or behind’.

Rushing or dragging? For once it wasn’t the one with the smug smile!

Rushing or dragging? For once it wasn’t the one with the smug smile!

It’s all natural and right and it usually creates a good balance and makes the music breathe. I think Tom Petty or Jimmy Iovine and The Heartbreaker’s drummer famously fell out over this, the drummer being seen as being too far behind the beat for one of the recordings. But ironically they found it hard to replace his time’ feel’ and most prefer the recordings with his ‘behind the time’ feel. https://ultimateclassicrock.com/tom-petty-refugee/

4. ‘Dark Harmonies’ and ‘brown’ notes.

Need more Light

Need more Light

There is a worry that in the genre of ’Singer Songwriter', broad as that is, that there is a convention and a tendency towards getting support musicians to all play blocky root chords, straight beats, and classic safe sounds. I found the songwriting approach with these songs to be a little on the ‘nice’ side initially, pleasant to the ear and conforming to what will not be upsetting. The mostly ‘box like’ 4x4 timing of our chord sequences and their easy predictability was a potential issue. As was the conventional type of scale we were often employing.

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Bit of tension regarding the piano approach for this one. Maybe I exaggerated my argument a bit in retrospect.

We talked about it…

“Between 50-100,00 song uploads every day across the different release platforms! How can we create something new to say? How unique can we be? How brave can we be? Does each song have its own unique personality? Life, our lives, are full of discord and anger, why can’t our music represent this? If we don’t represent light and dark, good and bad, harmony and disharmony, is it even honest?" I insisted it’s not just enough to be talented. In fact , is talent even that important?? Is Honesty and raw expression more vital?

Remember the Kit Kat ad… “you can’t sing, you can’t play, you look awful…..you’ll go a long way”.

5. Editing and the surgical tools available

Wha??!! What do mean ‘can I hear the click ok’?

Wha??!! What do mean ‘can I hear the click ok’?

So. This is where I had to eat humble pie.

These are 3 ways to fix a drum take ( apart from re doing it). And Chris is a wizard at it. We either …

A. Take the same song part ( drums channel) from another take and replace the not so good one.

B. Take the same part ( eg verse 1) in the same take and duplicate it and use it ( eg for verse 2 ) .

C. Nudge the beat or part of the beat back or forward so it aligns with the click…. or more importantly, with the time flow of all the musicians.

It’s cheating really. Can’t do any of that live! That’s why people love gigs. It’s real. And here’s us trying to ’fix’ what people love. Go figure.

One of my riskier suggestions was to take out the acoustic guitar out of the mix altogether for one song in an attempt to improve the flow and mood of the lyric! Now, this is like losing one ball for a songwriter …. This is part of the conception and original atmosphere and sonic landscape of the song. Who was I to suggest ‘no acoustic guitar’? But it was a song relating to night sky imagery and I felt it better if it did NOT have the anchor or grounding effect of the acoustic. It sounded better and the time flow was better without it we seemed to agree and all credit to Luke for acknowledging that.

Getting the right tempo is also important and we didn’t always stick to what we felt was best in rehearsals.

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“Now, this is not going to go down well, but…”

Epilogue

It was one of the best recording experiences I can remember. Great chats, a lorra laughs, and proper debates. And we worked bloody hard. We had a cool game we played on the last night drinking whiskey … 4 of us around a table in turn playing our …

-guilty pleasure song #1

-favourite song ever#1

-most hated song

-favourite bass line, guitar solo, drum beat etc.

Great craic! Maybe one of these songs will become a ‘best ever song’ to someone someday! Or a guilty pleasure!

Still laughing at the idea that somebody thought he made a mistake.

Still laughing at the idea that somebody thought he made a mistake.

I hope I didn’t come across too blunt or critical during our music debates, these are such great guys, with a lot of flexibility to allow me into their world and trust my grumpy left sided vision. Im not just curmudgeonly to Aer Lingus desk clerks you know…

FIN

*Next month I remember what it was like recording 2 studio albums with Josh Ritter, ‘Hello Starling’ and ‘Animal Years’… tune in !

****All photos ( well, the good ones) by Tom Scott @atomcreates

Videos by my Canon D5 camera

© Dave Hingerty 2025